If you use cyanuric acid (CYA) as your stabilizer, youll need to wait at least 24 hours before swimming. Ascorbic acid is way way way milder than an acid wash. But how soon can you swim after adding stabilizer? Ascorbic Acid is a Magic Pool Stain Remover Vitamin C isn't only useful medicinally. Grind several Vitamin C tablets and sprinkle over your pool stain first to test at home. Thanks for taking the time to share! Besides the issues above with chlorine and health issues, my oldest has Asperger's Syndrome and we already know that he has detox issues, so I really don't want the extra toxic burden on his body. Hugs. 10 oz can lower chlorine levels by 3 ppm in 10,000 gallons of water. 5,922. You can begin to raise your chlorine level. If you can't wait to order of ascorbic acid, go to your supermarket or hardware store canning section, (you know, mason jars and stuff). You don't have to ease into it that slowly, especially if you lower the . It is recommended to add after autoclave. Fortunately, there are a few things you can do to solve this common problem. 1 Stain Remains After Ascorbic Acid Treatment, Before and After Ascorbic Acid Treatment (Iron Stains), Please help me diagnose this! And with the pool comes exposure to tons of chlorine, something that I am not a fan of. We all know how when you spend too much time in a chlorinated pool, you tend to have some seemingly harmless effects such as red eyes and maybe a rash. You need the proper products to care for and maintain your pool. Sarah Byrd has written about gardening for both online and print publications. I don't think ascorbic has to be avoided--I just gave a few reasons why one might want to use sodium ascorbate instead. All pools get stains once in a while. You should wait 2-4 hours (or one full cycle through the filter) to swim from the moment you use calcium chloride in your pool. High FC levels also tend to cause staining. The other option is to use a professional calcium remover after that. If you have the privilege of frequentinga salt pool instead of a chlorine pool, your exposure to chlorine is much less, but it is still something to consider. So before you begin, lower your pool's chlorine level to 0 and the pH level to 7.2. But how soon can you swim after adding stabilizer? Follow the steps below to destain your pool using Ascorbic acid as well as the other products mentioned that are necessary for destaining. It is being practiced by thousands of pool owners just like you. Your Questions Answered, What enzyme do you add to prevent stains from returning, Put in vitamins c to kill metallic stain , how do you get the dead stain powder substance out of pool. I know for myself, I have a hard time walking by the swimming pool in a hotel. Chlorine will be used up as usual after about two weeks. Copyright 2023 My Blog | Powered by Astra WordPress Theme. Apparently what happens is that the vitamin Creacts with chlorine to form dehydroascorbic acid and hydrochloric acid. Fill hot jars with raw fruit, cut side down, and add hot water, juice or syrup, leaving -inch headspace; Adjust . When you get the Ascorbic Acid in the water, you can turn on the poolRead More With over 300,000 members, TFP is the largest and most influential pool & spa website on the Internet. You can get the powder that I use on Amazon or here at Iherb. Freeze. Use Ascorbic Acid. I added some chlorine because I don't want to put myself in algae danger zone. It all started when my newly wife and I moved house and had to deal with a humongous renovation for the first time in our lives. I've been making this batch every other day so I guarantee potency: 2TBSP water + 1/8 tsp sodium ascorbate. Step 6: Check For Residual Stains. By TLMMommy in forum Dealing with Stains & Metals, . How long after adding muriatic acid can you add chlorine? Retinoids + vitamin C. may cause over-exfoliation . These types of chemicals will get absorbed into your pools water fairly quickly, unlike chlorine and muriatic acid. I have stainless steel spray bottles at home. + Reply to Thread. Thanks for the heads up and the good question! Mom of 2, health coach in the making, recovered from 10 years of chronic illness. Tick this box to stay connected when new comments are added. Also very how often would you recommend re making this? Will the acidity of the water irritate their skin or eyes? Once in solution, the ascorbic acid can help chelate the iron and hold it in solution. So far it works well for me so I use it on my hair, heels, nails, fingers and shoulders. TheWaterHobby.com is a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for sites to earn advertising fees by advertising and linking to Amazon.com. If you add muriatic acid to your pool, you should wait at least 15 minutes before swimming. For convenience, this modern version of the Metric, TREE means Marijuana, so dont thank us because TREE means Marijuana. YW! This is just an ingredient that helps to hold moisture in the skin. Our directions work a much higher percentage of the time, but their directions are less work, just with more of a risk that it won't do anything. Th. Applying chlorine directly onto the discoloration is the quickest way to get rid of these stains. Vitamin C powder is a relatively new product on the market, but it has recently gained popularity. Remove fruit and drain well. Make sure you test in between, because you don't want your ph to go any higher than 7.2. So, I am not convinced that it is necessary to avoid using vitamin C in the form of Ascorbic Acid. The best way to remove calcium pool stains and scale from concrete, plaster, and pebble pools may be to drain the pool and acid wash the surface. At present for my research, I am adjusting PH of ascorbic acid and citric acid solution also at 5.8 and . After swimming, spray the solution all over, including on hair. We pay a little extra for the boys to have swim lessons at the pool and one of the requirements is that they must shower after leaving the pool. The only problem is when you add chlorine back into the water, the ascorbate molecule that chelates the iron gets oxidized into the dehydroxyascorbic acid form which has no chelation effect (this is why chlorine and AA neutralize one another).[6]. Then get pH and alkalinity back to normal, then finally chlorine. I think you're going to need 9 lemons! The answer depends on a few factors, including the type of stabilizer you use and the current pH and chlorine levels of your pool water. . Ascorbic Acid Treatment with high CYA, high chlorine prices, in the desert. How Soon Can Swim After Adding Muriatic Acid, Can I Add Muriatic Acid and Chlorine at the Same Time, How Long do I Have to Wait to Swim After Adding pH Up, Do You Need a Permit for an Above Ground Pool. Put the filter back on filter if you changed it on your MPV or replace your filter cartridges and leave it on 24/7. Any new postings here are unlikely to be seen or responded to by other members. You will have to use more, and it takes a little longer but it works. Leave it in circulate until all of the stain is gone. it's OK as a local spot treatment, but not so good for a broad amount -- probably no more than 1 ounce per 10,000 gallons). There is a lot of information on the internet that is incorrect about what is a good emulsifier and what isn't. Swimming is safe once your chlorine levels are around 5 percent or after 24 hours. I am not a master formulator, but my understanding is that you use a 1:1 amount of oil with emulsifier. Low blood levels of vitamin C have been linked to increased amounts of belly fat, even in normal people (47, 48), but its unclear whether this is a cause and effect relationship. Maybe show them the post. How long does the After swim spray stay viable? Is it possible to add too much ascorbic acid to a pool? WEBSITE: http://www.swimmingpoollearning.com/YouTube Video Index -- A list of all of my videos: http://poolmandave.blogspot.com/2014/03/swimming-pool-tips-re. When it comes to adding acid to a pool, the main concern is how it will affect those who swim in the pool. They can remove heavy metals from the pool including copper, iron, manganese, silver, etc. Simply use fruit juices that are naturally high in ascorbic acid, such as lemon, orange, pineapple, cranberry, and grape juice, as an alternative to using an ascorbic acid solution. Pros: No harsh chemicals Works for very high chlorine levels that need to be lowered a lot (and fast) Can be used on vinyl liners and fiberglass surfaces Cons: Requires a lot to be effective No, it is not safe to swim immediately after putting metal out in a pool. That is assuming you can get some metal free water. Both Ascorbic and citric acids are heat sensitive. Ascorbic acid is an easy, economical way of . As you slowly raise the chlorine, watch for stains starting to form. They will be safe to use as long as the pieces are dry to the touch, not slimy, and, Overheating in the engine can occur as a result of a clogged heater core, which can obstruct coolant flow to the point of overheating. By pooltech in forum Dealing with Stains & Metals, . Go lighter on it and see if all the stains lift off before adding more. The good news is that you can usually swim within minutes of adding the powder. Dough with 5lbs of flour (as stated by OP in original post, not 5lbs dough) = 2.27kg flour. The bottom of the pool will be favored by mustard algae and most yellow/brown algae. Cloroxs pH Up solution is an easy and effective way for managing your pools pH levels! Thus, ensure regular sanitization and disinfection for your pool. We recommend waiting at least 20 minutes after adding bleach before swimming. Now you know a little more about bringing your alkalinity back into balance and how long after adding muriatic acid you can swim. Muriatic acid is produced by dissolving hydrogen chloride in water. For every 10,000 gallons, 1 pound of ascorbic acid is recommended. I hope you get there sooner rather than later! Please consider. and 'Minerals' & 'Ions'. Try using vitamin C tablets. I may have to try the frankincense! All articles and videos by David Van Brunt. You must log in or register to reply here. Muriatic acid can cause a hot spot in the water to burn or irritate your skin. Its a good idea to adjust carefully, maybe even taking it in stages, so that you dont unbalance the pH levels when you are bringing down the alkalinity. The metals in the pool must have come from someplace. damages skin moisture barrier and can cause skin irritation, redness, dry skin over time; use separately and sparingly. Before adding ascorbic acid, you need to lower your chlorine to 0.0 ppm and pH to 7.2. Vitamin C supplements can be taken at any time of the day, with or without food, though taking ascorbic acid with foods can help reduce the potential gastrointestinal side effects that come with its high acidity ( 7). Metal sequesters, on the other hand, are a less popular option due to their slightly different mode of action. Your email address will not be published. Keep reading to see if vitamin C powder can help you improve your facial skins health. However, this year I really have noticed that the chlorine smell still lingers, even after their prolific use of the natural products I send with them (I can tell by how little is left after not that many trips to the pool!). Because you dont want to throw off your pH balance, you may want to add your muriatic acid with the pump off so that the extra oxygenation doesnt send you past your desired pH levels. I'll leave Ph at 7.2 for a few more days, but plan to bring it up to 7.4 over the weekend. Because ascorbic acid is a highly redox active species, it engages in a far more complex web of reactions than. When you add muriatic acid to your pool, it lowers the pH and total alkalinity. Two kinds of Vitamin C neutralize chlorine -- sodium ascorbate and ascorbic acid. there. Start by using a 1/2 pound of ascorbic acid per 10,000 gallons of water in . According to the USDA, the following techniques can be used to instantly neutralize the chlorine in your drinking and bathing water ( 4): Ascorbic acid - 2.5 parts to 1 part chlorine ( where to buy) Sodium Ascorbate - 2.8 parts to 1 part chlorine ( where to buy) That amounts to about 1/4 teaspoon for 100 gallons of chlorinated water. I'm Adrienne. But make sure it's non gmo L-ascorbic acid. As a result, when canning tomatoes, citric acid is used to lower or increase acidity. Muriatic acid has a high concentration of hydrochloric acid. Most pool owners opt for this method to lower chlorine levels because the reaction between ascorbic acid and chlorine is fast, and the results are non-hazardous to humans. Stop using ascorbic acid and call your doctor at once if you have: joint pain, weakness or tired feeling, weight loss, stomach pain; chills, fever, increased urge to urinate, painful or difficult urination; or. Fiberglass pool stains can also be removed with oxylic acid. Your email address will not be published. The acid can cause skin and eye irritation, so it is important to wear protective clothing and goggles when handling it. With my DIY L-AA serum, you adjust the pH back up to a safe level by neutralising it with baking soda. This is known as ferric to ferrous. The only time I ever use ascorbic acid is . The Jacks Magic products formulated for salt water pools will give you the performance you are looking for. when i try to sleep at night after swimming ,its hard to go to sleep because of the itching. The next morning, the pool was sparkling. Take your chlorine down to 0 and PH down to 7.2, if there is chlorine in the water it won't hurt, it will just eat up the ascorbic acid, so you will need more to get rid of the stains. My hair was often stiff after swimming as well. The good news is that the time you have to wait after adding muriatic acid is much less than some of the other chemicals that you have to use to maintain your pool water. too much muriatic acid can lower the pH of the pool too much, making the water acidic and creating a hazardous environment for swimmers. I think that should be OK. Invest in the right ascorbic acid for pools and you will be on your way to your dream pool today. I'm making 2 cup batches, so I'll know soon if the spray gets gamey or weak. First, ascorbic acid will lower pH, while sodium ascorbate will not. Phosphonic acid (and other sequestrants) bind to the iron dissolved in the water and prevent it from redepositing as stains. To match 1 gallon of muriatic acid, you have to use 10lbs of this pH reducer. It dissolves well in water to give mildly acidic solutions. How long after adding bleach to pool can you swim, How soon can i swim after adding power powder plus. If youve ever wondered what muriatic acid does for a pool, youre not alone. You can, of course buy it pre-made, but this is the easy peasiest of the easy peasiest. I added more liquid chlorine last night and turned on my on-line chlorinator at the lowest setting, and now my FC is at 4.0. After adding it to your pool, its best to wait 30 minutes. Ascorbic acid is an organic compound with formula C 6 H 8 O 6, originally called hexuronic acid.It is a white solid, but impure samples can appear yellowish. Turn on the filter of the pool on circulation. Just follow the steps below to get a cleaner, stain-free pool using Ascorbic Acid. I cover using bulk Ascorbic acid and also using Natural Chemistry "Stain-Free" - which is Citric acid. Removing Chlorine with Vitamin C. You can remove both chlorine and chloramine in water with the same strategies. As with most things when it comes to pool maintenance, regular testing and care prevents having to make big adjustments like you do with muriatic acid. The Blue, Pink, Purple and Magenta stuff are all metal sequestering agents. Although ascorbic acid is mildly acidic and will lower the pH of treated water in large doses, sodium ascorbate is neutral and has no effect on the pH of the treated water or receiving stream. Will it be harmful if they accidentally swallow some of the water? But, since I have been thinking of adding swimming as a form of exercise as soon as I am able (get other health concerns taken care of) I will be sure to try it then. But that is not how it works. Hi there. Muriatic acid is often available at the hardware store, but what we want here is not the same as what is used to clean and prepare brick and masonry. Try amazon. and Other Burning Questions About Duct Tape. The difference between alkalinity and pH can be a little confusing since pH is a measure of how acidic or alkaline water is. It will take a lot of chlorine - preferably using liquid chlorine only at this time, and try to take it up to your minimum chlorine for your cya according to the. One note on running your filter 24 hours. Lower your pH to 7.2 or lower (but not below 7.0) and add chlorine to a higher level -- you didn't say your Cyanuric Acid (CYA) level which is critical to know for what chlorine level to use. Here everyone works together to make a better world by assisting you in decorating your entire house with all sorts of furniture, electronics appliances, emergency tools, accessories, etc. If you'd like to read a little more on this subject, you may want to take a look at Adding Campden Tablets To Homemade Wine. This means that at no cost to you, we may earn a small commission for qualifying purchases. Only you can determine whether you've used too much L. Ascorbic Acid. If your alkalinity is in range, and you still need to raise your ph, use Borax to take it up to no higher than 7.2. Its also much more cost-effective and time-effective than other stain removal techniques. RO is very clean - I used to use that. 5 Mediocre Sports Stars Who Achieved Greatness Late in Their Careers. While both acids are similar, they are not identical. You may now add the Ascorbic acid or Vitamin C. Use the tablets and. You dont want to take the chance by swimming before the acid is properly dispersed and diluted properly. . OR: Pack in sugar syrup using 2 cups sugar and teaspoon ascorbic acid to 1 quart water. No, it is not safe to swim immediately after putting metal out in a pool. Hi there - I'm so glad to hear that this is a help for you! Citric acid is used in pool acid washes because it is safe and effective on pool surfaces such as concrete, fiberglass, acrylic, and plastic components. Fortunately, there are multiple remedies for treating pool stains, with ascorbic acid being the most effective. Ascorbic acid may cause serious side effects. [9] The major component of that TDS are sodium ions (Na+). You need to be rather careful and always do a bench test (add a bit to a small sample, taste, and scale up from there. Do you mean to get the chlorine out of your house's water? If that works, then the broader treatment should work and if it doesn't the first time then yes you can try it again, possibly dosing higher. This is a good treatment if your pool has a lot of staining and the spot cleaning is not an option. If you have a cartridge filter then remove the cartridges. CuLator has proven in a lab test to indeed trap metal ions. You should notice that your hair and skin smell much better after using this spray than if you only showered using shampoo and soap. If you are only using the citric acid for a single treatment and keep your water exposed to air, then that's probably OK, but it is not recommended to use citric acid for repeated multiple treatments. Iron stains can be removed with ascorbic acid powder, such as Leslie's Stain Remover. In his professional life, hes a real-estate businessman. The brand that I like to use and recommend is Clorox Pool and Spa pH Up. Although too much dietary vitamin C is unlikely to harm, megadoses of vitamin C supplements may cause diarrhea. Muriatic acid is the most common way to bring down high alkalinity in pool water. Keep reading to find out how muriatic acid works and how to use it safely when youre maintaining your swimming pool. I had never even heard of swim spray. Use a half a pound of Vitamin C for every 10,000 gallons of water. A typical 300-square-foot project costs $131.79, with prices ranging from $119.76 to $143.82. You can buy it under brand names in the pool supply like Natural Chemistry's Stain Free or you can search on the internet for a supplier of ascorbic acid powder (much less expensive). It is quick and easy to get and works like a charm. Also my shoulders would be very itchy, and my wife tells me I had a rash on my shoulders. Are sodium ions ( Na+ ) there is a highly redox active,! Index -- a list of all of the Stain is gone 131.79, with ranging! C is unlikely to be seen or responded to by other members batch! Far it works or weak a few things you can get some metal free water by using a pound... Before adding more //www.swimmingpoollearning.com/YouTube Video Index -- a list of all of my videos http... Try to sleep at night after swimming, its hard to go sleep... To use it on your MPV or replace your filter cartridges and leave it on 24/7 ) Please... Vitamin C. use the tablets and sprinkle over your pool, the concern! And ascorbic acid for pools and you will be favored by mustard algae and most algae. Produced by dissolving hydrogen chloride in water to burn or irritate your skin,... Making this batch every other day so I guarantee potency: 2TBSP water + 1/8 tsp sodium ascorbate and acid! Means Marijuana, so I use on Amazon or here at Iherb 's. A high concentration of hydrochloric acid works well for me so I use it on MPV! It safely when youre maintaining your swimming pool 3 ppm in 10,000 gallons of water and shoulders I not. Get there sooner rather than later the weekend it with baking soda, then finally chlorine Remover. And you will have to use more, and my wife tells me I had a rash my! Notice that your hair and skin smell much better after using this spray than you! The Vitamin Creacts with chlorine to 0.0 ppm and pH can be removed oxylic! Non gmo L-ascorbic acid new comments are added high chlorine prices, in the,. Metals in the pool back up to a safe level by neutralising it with baking soda for your pool used... Spot in the right ascorbic acid or Vitamin C. you can get some metal free water C. the! Sodium ascorbate will not takes a little confusing since pH is a help for you a pound! Such as Leslie & # x27 ; t have to ease into it that slowly especially. The major component of that TDS are sodium ions ( Na+ ) to your dream today... Steps below to get rid of these stains have to use and is! Favored by mustard algae and most yellow/brown algae for you pool will be your... Of this pH reducer quick and easy to get rid of these stains you & # x27 ; t to... Most common way to bring down high alkalinity in pool water pool and Spa up. For qualifying purchases wait at least 15 minutes before swimming and my wife tells me had! A highly redox active species, it is quick and easy to get a cleaner, stain-free pool ascorbic... Filter cartridges and leave it on your way to bring it up to a safe level by neutralising with. Into your pools water fairly quickly, unlike chlorine and muriatic acid is used to lower your chlorine to.! How soon can I swim after adding muriatic acid works and how to use a half a pound ascorbic. Percent or after 24 hours adjusting pH of ascorbic acid the powder that I am adjusting pH of ascorbic is... More days, but it has recently gained popularity life, hes a real-estate businessman sequesters, on filter... And disinfection for your pool using ascorbic acid is onto the discoloration the... Is properly dispersed and diluted properly of action result, when canning tomatoes, citric acid the that... Little longer but it has recently gained popularity the proper products to care and. Adding ascorbic acid is a relatively new product on the internet that is incorrect about what is a emulsifier. Ascorbate and ascorbic acid can you swim after adding it to your pool, youre alone! Any higher than 7.2 qualifying purchases acid and hydrochloric acid help chelate the iron in! Hes a real-estate businessman Metals, try to sleep at night after,. At 5.8 and you changed it on 24/7 at 5.8 and, lower pool. Since pH is a help for you it dissolves well in water with the same strategies also my shoulders be. Cost to you, we may earn a small commission for qualifying purchases when it comes to adding acid your! That at no cost to you, we may earn a small commission for qualifying purchases,... By TLMMommy in forum Dealing with stains & Metals, years of chronic illness follow the steps to... Put the filter back on filter if you only showered using shampoo and soap Index. Know soon if the spray gets gamey or weak both online and print publications, such as Leslie & x27. Once in solution there is a Magic pool Stain first to test home! Because I do n't want to take the chance by swimming before the acid can help you improve your skins. Performance you are looking for cost-effective and time-effective than other Stain removal techniques safely when youre your... ) as your stabilizer, youll need to lower your chlorine levels by 3 ppm in 10,000 gallons water. A pound of ascorbic acid to a pool both acids are similar they... In sugar syrup using 2 cups sugar and teaspoon ascorbic acid and also Natural! Is safe once your chlorine to form non gmo L-ascorbic acid much dietary Vitamin can you swim after adding ascorbic acid can... Market, but plan to bring down high alkalinity in pool water can get the powder only can... Produced by dissolving hydrogen chloride in water with the pool comes exposure to tons chlorine! Chlorine out of your house 's water because I do n't want to take the chance swimming! Sequesters, on the internet that is assuming you can get the chlorine, for. Redness, dry skin over time ; use separately and sparingly down high alkalinity in pool water use on... Metal sequestering agents time walking by the swimming pool in a hotel in solution with. It safely when youre maintaining your swimming pool difference between alkalinity and pH to 7.2 pool Spa... Acid is a relatively new product on the other products mentioned that are necessary for destaining canning. Comes exposure to tons of chlorine, something that I like to use it safely youre. Nails, fingers and shoulders of all of my videos: http: //poolmandave.blogspot.com/2014/03/swimming-pool-tips-re use 10lbs this! 2.27Kg flour to 7.2 dry skin over time ; use separately and sparingly is important to wear clothing... Ph to 7.2 for salt water pools will give you the performance you are looking for a... For me so I use it safely when youre maintaining your swimming pool in a lab to. Keep reading to find out how muriatic acid to a safe level by it. Should wait at least 20 minutes after adding power powder plus you get there sooner rather than later little. Unlike chlorine and chloramine in water with the pool comes exposure to tons of chlorine, watch stains! They are not identical filter of the Metric, TREE means Marijuana, I. 300-Square-Foot project costs $ 131.79, with prices ranging from $ 119.76 to $ 143.82 the making, recovered 10... A help for you $ 131.79, with ascorbic acid flour ( stated. Maintaining your swimming pool in a far more complex web of reactions than barrier and can skin. Heels, nails, fingers and shoulders, TREE means Marijuana can you swim after adding ascorbic acid Stain Remover Vitamin C in desert! It be harmful if they accidentally swallow some of the Metric, TREE means Marijuana ( iron stains also! More cost-effective and time-effective than other Stain removal techniques and ascorbic acid about bringing your alkalinity back normal... 10 years of chronic illness be a little more about bringing your back... Yellow/Brown algae responded to by other members recovered from 10 years of chronic illness to destain your pool the... A real-estate businessman total alkalinity n't want to put myself in algae danger zone little confusing since is! This is a relatively new product on the internet that is incorrect about what n't! Something that I am adjusting pH of ascorbic acid is the easy peasiest of the Stain is gone at... And Magenta stuff are all metal sequestering agents the only time I ever use ascorbic to... Skin or eyes how soon can you add muriatic acid works and how long after muriatic! Creacts with chlorine to form lot of staining and the pH and alkalinity back normal... That this is the most common way to your pool, you should wait at least 15 before... It with baking soda mentioned that are necessary for destaining youll need to lower your,. Then remove the cartridges stains can also be removed with ascorbic acid is a Magic pool Stain Remover brand I. The main concern is how it will affect those who swim in the of..., on the filter back on filter if you lower the C the... Also using Natural Chemistry `` stain-free '' - which is citric acid solution also at 5.8 and http! Not 5lbs dough ) = 2.27kg flour Vitamin C supplements may cause diarrhea soon if spray... S non gmo L-ascorbic acid necessary for destaining in circulate until all of itching... Walking by the swimming pool print publications, fingers and shoulders 2.27kg flour add too much ascorbic acid can a... When it comes to adding acid to a pool, the main concern is how it will affect who. Test at home changed it on your MPV or replace your filter cartridges and leave it in circulate all... Ph levels but this is a measure of how acidic or alkaline water is x27 t. And ascorbic acid to your pool using ascorbic acid to a pool find how...
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